I’ve been mulling this over for several days now, and I think it’s finally time to put it down on paper. I don’t get upset over too much anymore, it’s such a waste of energy that could be applied in a positive manner. But on occasion something happens that gets my dander up and I have to get up on my soapbox and spew. So if you don’t like spewing, go somewhere else for today.
Last Sunday was Veteran’s Day and lots of bloggers wrote in reference to that, honoring in their own way the veterans of past wars and those currently serving. Now, I am the first to say that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. That’s what America is all about, isn’t it? The right to freedom of speech? But I am also a firm believer in the fact that you better be able to back any statements that you make regarding those beliefs. Defend them and don’t run and hide behind some twisted logic and by locking your diary!!
Let me make this perfectly clear (have you heard that before?). I am not a warmonger by any stretch of the imagination. War is a terrible thing. People die. Wives are left without husbands, children without fathers, parents without sons. It’s terrible. In a perfect world there would be no war. Everyone would get along famously and there would be worldwide peace. Unfortunately, that is a figment of someone’s imagination. War has existed since the beginning of history and will probably exist as long as this Earth does.
Wars are fought over a variety of reasons, most being either religion (the current war in the Middle East) or expansion issues. It would be wonderful if we could get all parties involved to sit down around a table and TALK things out, come to terms and make peace. But that isn’t going to happen, Folks, because the aggressors are just that – aggressive – and firmly believe they can win. So if the talks don’t work, are we to sit back and allow our country to be overrun? Would those who speak so negatively about war rather have that happen? Shall we just turn over our way of life to some other force in the name of Peace, Love and Happiness? Believe me, if that were the case there would be no Peace, Love and Happiness in our country. Let’s get realistic here.
World War I was fought in Europe in the trenches. Germany tried to overrun France and Belgium. The United States wasn’t even involved. President Wilson made a number of attempts at mediating the situation but all were refused. The next thing you knew, unauthorized German subs showed up off the east coast of the United States, and they sank the Lusitania. The Lusitania was a British cruise ship taking vacationers from New York to England, and many Americans died. Had they provoked anything? Not on your life. THAT’S when the U.S. got into the Great War – when we were attacked – AFTER peace negotiations failed. Should we have allowed Germany to continue to destroy American lives and just sat there and said, “Oh, Germany, let’s talk about this and come to terms? After all, Peace, Love and Happiness have got to work.”
World War II began because Germany tried to overrun parts of Europe. Of course these countries fought against their acquisition and were supported by the Allies, excluding the United States in the beginning. The U.S. supported them by shipping supplies, food and ammunitions to England. The Prime Minister of England met with Hitler and tried to come to terms, but we all know that didn’t happen and the war continued. Then one sunny, Sunday morning the Japanese, who supported Germany, bombed Pearl Harbor and the United States entered the war. Now, tell me again, should we have abided by Love, Peace and Happiness and not responded to the bombing of Pearl Harbor and all the lives that were lost? Yes, I agree, entering the war lost more lives. But should we not have defended our country we would all probably be speaking either Japanese or German today. Fortunately there were men and women who felt strongly about this issue, fought that war and won it so that we have freedom today.
I have been accused of making it sound like speaking German or Japanese is a bad thing. Get a grip, Blogger. That’s not what I meant at all. German and Japanese are wonderful second languages if you are an American. But if you had lived under Hitler or Hirohito, you wouldn’t HAVE the freedoms to make those choices, or to criticize our government officials like you currently do.
Then there were several United Nations sanctioned events like the Korean War and the Gulf War. It’s my understanding that the United Nations’ main objective is world peace keeping. And you see how well they’ve done their job.
And shall we talk about Vietnam? That war actually began prior to the end of WWII when Japan overran the French and made Vietnam a puppet state run by Communist China. When the Communists decided they wanted the entire country they were supplied with money and materials by the Soviet Union in order to spread communism throughout all of Indochina. Years later the President of the United States sent millions of dollars to aid the French along with personnel to supervise how the money was spent. At that point they were not combat troops. In the early 50s the French tried to negotiate peace with the communists, and again that didn’t work. Things proceeded over the years with lots of details I won’t even go into here, but negotiations took place numerous times to no avail. Meanwhile Communism spread throughout the Far East, Eastern Germany and right to our back door in Cuba during this time. Ever heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis? And the Soviet Union grew stronger and more powerful. We all know that U.S. troops eventually pulled out, going home with their tail between their legs due to a number of things, one being pressure from citizens at home. Hmmm – if we had allowed Communism to spread maybe we could all be working on a collective farm now, and standing in line for our daily ration of stale bread. Isn’t that a fun thought?
Now just how many of these soldiers do you suppose WANTED to be sent to Vietnam? Did that give the protesters at home the right to ridicule the military? To call them “Baby Killers” and spit on them as they arrived back home from fighting to protect YOUR freedom and security?
Now let’s take 9/11. For the first time we were attacked by a foreign country on our own soil. Should we have just sat back, taken it all in and waited for it to happen again? “Oh, Mr. Muslim, please come and kill some more infidels!” Should we bring those bombs to YOUR front door and see how you like it? Have you ever had a dear one involved in a situation where he was being shot at and could possibly lose his life? Have you ever lost a brother, father or husband to a war? Unfortunately, Peace, Love and Happiness don’t always work. I wish it did.
I clearly understand the difference between supporting the war effort and supporting the military personnel. And yes, I also understand that if politicians and generals had to fight the wars there would probably be fewer wars and more negotiations. But please tell me this – how do you negotiate with someone whose thought processes and values are so different than our own? How do you negotiate peace with someone whose life has no value to them? How do you negotiate with someone whose existence on earth is so miserable that dying is a better alternative? After all, there will be 47 virgins awaiting them after death.
So if you’re going to make statements be prepared to back them up. I’ve asked several questions of you, and you’ve refused to answer, which leads me to believe you are exactly what I accused you of. Don’t run and hide behind twisted logic and a locked diary. Or maybe you’d rather be wearing a burka? Maybe that would give you Peace, Love and Happiness.
A quote from Mark Twain: “Never get in an argument with an idiot because he will drag you down to his level. After all, you can’t fight stupidity with common sense and logic.”
Last Sunday was Veteran’s Day and lots of bloggers wrote in reference to that, honoring in their own way the veterans of past wars and those currently serving. Now, I am the first to say that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. That’s what America is all about, isn’t it? The right to freedom of speech? But I am also a firm believer in the fact that you better be able to back any statements that you make regarding those beliefs. Defend them and don’t run and hide behind some twisted logic and by locking your diary!!
Let me make this perfectly clear (have you heard that before?). I am not a warmonger by any stretch of the imagination. War is a terrible thing. People die. Wives are left without husbands, children without fathers, parents without sons. It’s terrible. In a perfect world there would be no war. Everyone would get along famously and there would be worldwide peace. Unfortunately, that is a figment of someone’s imagination. War has existed since the beginning of history and will probably exist as long as this Earth does.
Wars are fought over a variety of reasons, most being either religion (the current war in the Middle East) or expansion issues. It would be wonderful if we could get all parties involved to sit down around a table and TALK things out, come to terms and make peace. But that isn’t going to happen, Folks, because the aggressors are just that – aggressive – and firmly believe they can win. So if the talks don’t work, are we to sit back and allow our country to be overrun? Would those who speak so negatively about war rather have that happen? Shall we just turn over our way of life to some other force in the name of Peace, Love and Happiness? Believe me, if that were the case there would be no Peace, Love and Happiness in our country. Let’s get realistic here.
World War I was fought in Europe in the trenches. Germany tried to overrun France and Belgium. The United States wasn’t even involved. President Wilson made a number of attempts at mediating the situation but all were refused. The next thing you knew, unauthorized German subs showed up off the east coast of the United States, and they sank the Lusitania. The Lusitania was a British cruise ship taking vacationers from New York to England, and many Americans died. Had they provoked anything? Not on your life. THAT’S when the U.S. got into the Great War – when we were attacked – AFTER peace negotiations failed. Should we have allowed Germany to continue to destroy American lives and just sat there and said, “Oh, Germany, let’s talk about this and come to terms? After all, Peace, Love and Happiness have got to work.”
World War II began because Germany tried to overrun parts of Europe. Of course these countries fought against their acquisition and were supported by the Allies, excluding the United States in the beginning. The U.S. supported them by shipping supplies, food and ammunitions to England. The Prime Minister of England met with Hitler and tried to come to terms, but we all know that didn’t happen and the war continued. Then one sunny, Sunday morning the Japanese, who supported Germany, bombed Pearl Harbor and the United States entered the war. Now, tell me again, should we have abided by Love, Peace and Happiness and not responded to the bombing of Pearl Harbor and all the lives that were lost? Yes, I agree, entering the war lost more lives. But should we not have defended our country we would all probably be speaking either Japanese or German today. Fortunately there were men and women who felt strongly about this issue, fought that war and won it so that we have freedom today.
I have been accused of making it sound like speaking German or Japanese is a bad thing. Get a grip, Blogger. That’s not what I meant at all. German and Japanese are wonderful second languages if you are an American. But if you had lived under Hitler or Hirohito, you wouldn’t HAVE the freedoms to make those choices, or to criticize our government officials like you currently do.
Then there were several United Nations sanctioned events like the Korean War and the Gulf War. It’s my understanding that the United Nations’ main objective is world peace keeping. And you see how well they’ve done their job.
And shall we talk about Vietnam? That war actually began prior to the end of WWII when Japan overran the French and made Vietnam a puppet state run by Communist China. When the Communists decided they wanted the entire country they were supplied with money and materials by the Soviet Union in order to spread communism throughout all of Indochina. Years later the President of the United States sent millions of dollars to aid the French along with personnel to supervise how the money was spent. At that point they were not combat troops. In the early 50s the French tried to negotiate peace with the communists, and again that didn’t work. Things proceeded over the years with lots of details I won’t even go into here, but negotiations took place numerous times to no avail. Meanwhile Communism spread throughout the Far East, Eastern Germany and right to our back door in Cuba during this time. Ever heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis? And the Soviet Union grew stronger and more powerful. We all know that U.S. troops eventually pulled out, going home with their tail between their legs due to a number of things, one being pressure from citizens at home. Hmmm – if we had allowed Communism to spread maybe we could all be working on a collective farm now, and standing in line for our daily ration of stale bread. Isn’t that a fun thought?
Now just how many of these soldiers do you suppose WANTED to be sent to Vietnam? Did that give the protesters at home the right to ridicule the military? To call them “Baby Killers” and spit on them as they arrived back home from fighting to protect YOUR freedom and security?
Now let’s take 9/11. For the first time we were attacked by a foreign country on our own soil. Should we have just sat back, taken it all in and waited for it to happen again? “Oh, Mr. Muslim, please come and kill some more infidels!” Should we bring those bombs to YOUR front door and see how you like it? Have you ever had a dear one involved in a situation where he was being shot at and could possibly lose his life? Have you ever lost a brother, father or husband to a war? Unfortunately, Peace, Love and Happiness don’t always work. I wish it did.
I clearly understand the difference between supporting the war effort and supporting the military personnel. And yes, I also understand that if politicians and generals had to fight the wars there would probably be fewer wars and more negotiations. But please tell me this – how do you negotiate with someone whose thought processes and values are so different than our own? How do you negotiate peace with someone whose life has no value to them? How do you negotiate with someone whose existence on earth is so miserable that dying is a better alternative? After all, there will be 47 virgins awaiting them after death.
So if you’re going to make statements be prepared to back them up. I’ve asked several questions of you, and you’ve refused to answer, which leads me to believe you are exactly what I accused you of. Don’t run and hide behind twisted logic and a locked diary. Or maybe you’d rather be wearing a burka? Maybe that would give you Peace, Love and Happiness.
A quote from Mark Twain: “Never get in an argument with an idiot because he will drag you down to his level. After all, you can’t fight stupidity with common sense and logic.”
10 comments:
Hi - its me. The one who thought she was the lurker. I can't find how to just email you on here, so here is my email addy - its funny and makes no sense but just go with it. :)
faygo10@hotmail.com
Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have troops in 130 countries. That is really stretching our military way too thin. We barely have enough troops to protect AMERICA!
Fantastic entry!! Well, done, well said!!
I support the troops. I know they have absolutely no choice in where they go and whether they fight. I could never ever call a soldier a "baby-killer" unless I saw him commit atrocities with my own eyes. I am madder as all heck at Lt Watada who joined the military and is now refusing to go to Iraq because he believes it is an illegal war. You don't join the military and then refuse to go where you are sent.
That said, I don't think we had justification in this war. This war has nothing to do with Sept 11th. We need to be concentrating on finding Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and taking down al Qaeda. I agree that we need to defend ourselves when we are attacked, but I think we're going after the wrong people now.
Also, I don't like the fact that there are so many National Guardsmen over in Iraq. Those guys are for our domestic issues. Had the National Guard been home, I think New Orleans would have recovered a lot more quickly.
These are my opinions, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I think we all want the same thing -- to feel safe at home in the States, and to know that democracy is spreading to those who don't have it now. I just think we all have different ways of seeing it... and that's the beauty of being an American!
I have two daughters and a son-in-law in the army. Two of them are currently serving in Afghanistan and have previously served in Iraq and East Timor. I wore khaki myself for some years. I think that earns me the right to give an opinion.
No-one goes into a war supporting an unjust cause. Every side thinks they are right. Whether it be the crusaders invading the holy lands or the Tamil Tigers fighting for a homeland, the Germans annexing France or the Americans ousting Saddam, they all believed their cause was the right one. And no-one fights in opposition unless they also believe they are justified.
Which side is right and just is always open to debate.
And, we often change our minds. Over 80% of my countrymen supported our joining of the coalition of the willing. Now the same numbers believe we should withdraw our troops. The cause didn't change, just public support.
We use all sorts of justifications for going to war. Religion, freedom, race, revenge, defence, morality. None of them are the real reason. We go to war for one reason and one reason only. We believe that we have right on our side. And we think it is important enough, and that we are strong enough, to enforce it. And our opponents believe exactly the same about their cause.
Is war ever right? An awful lot of us seem to think so and have done so since time began. Is this particular war justified? A matter of (very changeable) public opinion. Do our troops believe their cause is just? They have to. It is the only way they can survive. We, through our parliamentary representative, told them that they were on the right side, that the fight was worth it. We sent them there to fight (and die) for our cause. Just because the pile of bodybags and the failure to achieve a quick victory changed our minds doesn't make their need for faith in their task any less.
Should we want an end to war? Too right we should. Should we support our troops on the ground until that happens? Abso-bloody-lutely!
i agree 10000% of what you say, you tell the truth, and this is a mavelous entree!! i support the united states of america, and swore an oath to protect her from ALL enemies, foreign, and domestic. these snot nosed kids who cry out 'love, peace, and happiness' are way too young to know you have to pay a price for that, and if part of that price is going to war, then so be it. my brother died in vietnam fighting the commies. he is a hero. he defended our lifestyle and freedoms without question. he is a warrior. any member of the armed forces of the united states of america knew what they were getting into when the volunteered thier lives in service to our country. what we have to do, as citizens of the united states is support our president, and our fighting men and women who defend our way of life. if you dont like the politicians, VOTE them OUT of OFFICE. ill shut up now.
Good for you Lena!!! I whole heartedly agree with you!
War is Hell plain and simple. I may or may not agree with what you say but you have a right to say it.
Keep up the Great words!
I have several relatives in the military past and present. Some during War time and some during peace time, my own father would have went to Korea, had the draft rules been different at the time.
I firmly believe that one is
justified in defending themselves, ie if somebody attacks me I wont' just stand there,I will fight back, but only if they leave me no other option. this also goes for defending someone else, especially if they aren't able to defend themselves.
I also think that maybe someday all this destruction and loss of innocent lives will come to an end, that eventually human beings will evole to the point where they no longer feel the need to be right at any cost, that they will no longer need to force everyone to live thier way, believe their religion, look down on non members of thier group ad not mattering or act like two year olds in a sandbox and take what they want from others, just because they are bigger and they can. Greed and religion are not the only motivators of war, fear and pride are also at the top of the list.
I realize that is probably a fantasy island dream, a fairy tale. but it doesnt' stop me from hoping, hope is one of the few things we have.
Man is capable of great things, but right now he seems more focused on the ugly, motivated not out of desire to help or to make the world better, but to create it in his own image, because he lives in fear of anyone or anything too different from himself.
I am an idealist, but I am also a rationalist and a realizt., who believes someday words will work because there won't be anymore Saddams, Osama's, Hitlers, Edie Amin's or others who use hatred and fear and think might makes right.
But that while self defense is justified and some people won't respond to words, we also need to take a look at how events including our own actions lead these people to be able to gain power in the first place. I truly believe sometimes we create the very things we are trying to fight against.
you go, girl! great entry!
i think the people who go to war need our support, and i would never spit on any of them, or condemn them in any way. i also support the president, no matter who he is. like him or not, he is still our leader, and deserves respect and support because of that. just my opinion...
imagine all the people, living life in peace....
Lena...you are WONDERFUL...Thank you for taking the time to type all that out and tell some grown up "Facts". When I hear someone just say things like "George Bush is evil cause he started a war"...or "America is evil because we put our nose where it don't belong"..I want to ask those naive people where they get their talking points. I never mind debating people who have opposing opinions that came from well educated and well thought out information but when I hear people parroting the main stream media or joining a Peace rally because the want to relive their college years...or when these people anonymously spew their opinion then run and hide because they can't put anything behind their opinion...I want to throw up. I for one as a conservative am tired of hearing that I am mean and that I want people to die and that I want old people to starve and the Earth to rot....and that I am pro war...I take war very seriously...it is a tragedy but yes...like you said...we have a right to defend ourselves..People who spew propaganda like that scare the bejesus out of me...Thank you again Lena.
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